2004 Credit Suit

Talked with Gloria at Providian again

The answer is due tomorrow, after 6 months of extensions.

My previous postings on Providian

Gloria relayed to me their $1,500 settlement offer, with a confidentiality agreement. Yeah, when hell freezes over.

The Providian attorney in charge thinks it's $1,000 per violation. I don't look at it that way, but considering the number of disputes, their offer should have been much higher according to their own method of calculating.

$500 of their offer was for legal fees, the work I do myself. What they and most others probably don't realize is that I already have over $3K in actual expenses for legal resources and services.

I really would like to find out WHY this discharged account just could not be reported correctly, why my direct dispute with Providian was ignored, why they reported the account to Equifax twice, why the bk dates were reported incorrectly (that's also a Capital One issue) and why the account was all of a sudden reported delinquent (screenshot in previous posting) and reaged!

Those are the things I'd like to know and Providian has no answers. They can't locate their records.

The CRAs claim that they only report what creditors submit.

My conclusion:

The Providian credit reporting procedures MUST be flawed. The only other explanation is that they purposely reported incorrectly just on my credit. And that's unlikely. Especially since I've seen my share of Providian ridiculous reportig on my readers' and clients' reports.

Well, since Gloria is such a nice person, I gave them another week and I offered to settle for $12K with a confidentiality agreement.

But I just the same have Providian answer and find out through discovery what their procedures are and what the heck is going on.

Providian extension to 1/9/04

Just got a Providian fax, this is very odd. The other defendants wanted a signed stipulation for filing with the court, the feds filed a motion for an extension with the court, Providian simply sent me a "call summary" - that's what I tell my readers to do when they can't get written promises from creditors and collectors.

"This letter confirms our discussion yesterday ...."

Whatever works for them.

My dispute directly with Providian

I forgot all about that, never received any response and they sure didn't fix it!

"July 28, 2002

Re: Dispute of credit reporting

To Whom It May Concern:

I hereby dispute the credit reporting of account 4428000416001... on my Experian report.

You are reporting incorrect dates for the bankruptcy. As per Fair Isaac, EACH date and balance, whether reported or not, factors into my credit scores."

I'm beginning to think my offer was too low.

Talked with Gloria at Providian

Providian hasn't answered because they want to settle and apparently they forgot to contact me about that. Gloria got some dispute info on Equifax, and I just now saw why she said that they found disputes of "not my account." Providian had reported the account TWICE, and verified with Equifax.

The scan of the Equifax investigation results stating that the duplicate accounts are reported "correctly."

Unfortunately, Providian has nothing on Experian, and Experian is the major issue.

Experian reported the Providian account with a delinquent balance and re-aged the account to report as defaulted in 7/02 and to be reported until 7/09, while it should have been deleted just a few months later.

As of 8/03 Experian NO LONGER reports how the accounts are aged off the reports. They always used to provide the "This account is scheduled to continue on record until ..." notation as you can see in the screenshot below and apparently that made it too easy for consumers to sue for re-aging of accounts.

You can't sue for what you don't know!

Additionally, Providian kept reporting the account with NEW bankruptcy dates throughout 2002, despite my numerous disputes.

I agreed to give them until 1/9/04 to answer and I offered to settle for $15K.

Below is the annotated screenshot of the 1/03 Providian reporting:

What happened with Providian?

"11/25/03 79 WAIVER of Service of summons and complaint upon dft
Providian ; waiver sent on 9/15/03 (sat)"

Looks like their answer was due a month ago. Don't see it on the docket, didn't get anything in the mail.

Providian finally sent the Waiver

I had serious doubts.

First they lost the complaint and request for waiver, then I resent it, then they took their time ....

Gloria, Providian, left message, supervising attorney back in a week

According to Gloria's message, the supervising attorney was out last week and will be back next week and then I'll get their Waiver.

We shall see.

Gloria, Providian, out of office Thu + Fri

I just looked over my client's file again, he really ought to sue.

And I'm wondering if Providian is just stringing me along like Compass Bank, to eventually move to dismiss because I'm past the 120 days to serve them.

Gloria, Providian - SSCRA

Started calling Providian's Gloria again yesterday. Not only because I don't have the Waiver yet, but also on behalf of a client.

For MONTHS he has been trying to get the credit reporting of a 1999 Providian charge-off corrected. I had submitted his Orders and Proof of Service with his notarized power of attorney, and Sheri Gorman in the Office of the President REFUSED to correct anything.

Aside from the SSCRA (Soldiers and Sailors Civil Relief Act), creditors can NEVER report a delinquent balance for an account they no longer own.

I've spent endless hours on this account, but Providian continues to report the account as SOLD and with the delinquent balance.

It doesn't even require any investigation, the bureaus who verified are just as liable because they can SEE that Providian reports the account as SOLD.

My client was just declined credit due to the delinquent Providian account and classified as B paper for an auto loan.

If anyone knows of attorneys specializing in working with military people, please e-mail. My client's APO address is in California, he is highly organized and has all the documentation, and the disputes were factual.

It's despicable how creditors treat the people who serve this country.

ProvidianFinancialSucks.com Forum

ProvidianFinancialSucks.com Forum

I just posted my problems with Providian:

Providian credit reporting violations - SUE, people, SUE!

Posted: 09-25-2003 04:12 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I walk my talk, I sued in Phoenix federal court on 3/19/03, the blog of my suit is at http://www.creditsuit.org/

Providian is one of many defendants, and my problems revolved around the reporting of a Providian account, discharged in 1996.

Providian reported in duplicate to Equifax and VERIFIED upon dispute, "decorated" the account with incorrect 2002 bankruptcy notation on Experian, and then reported it with a 19K+ balance and a 5K past due balance and NO bankruptcy notation - almost 7 years after the discharge.

That's the kind of reporting that can send your FICO credit scores to the 500s.

The Experian screenshot: http://forum.creditcourt.com/discus/messages/1762/2497.html

It's really nothing special, just credit reporting as practiced by many banks.

What makes Providian stand out is that they REFUSE consumer disputes unless the consumers provide credit reports no older than 30 days.

A scanned Providian letter refusing disputes is posted at http://forum.creditcourt.com/discus/messages/1762/211.html

Providian also verified a BALANCE for a SOLD account after the dispute by an active duty military member stationed overseas, and then they refused his faxed and e-mailed (from the .mil address) power of attorney. And they ignore the SSCRA, as per Sheri Gorman, Office of the President, Providian.

This is a great site, real well done. I'll let Providian know about it and my posting here.

Gloria, Providian, decline info

1) Gloria told me that they finally figured out what happened with my PayPal decline in 2001. They declined the application because I had a discharged account with them. That makes sense to me. I might not have applied if I had known that the PayPal accounts are issued by Providian.

Every ad for a credit card should clearly display the name of the issuing bank.

And I find it strange that it is Providian's policy to require a WRITTEN request before disclosing the reason for the decline. It's even stranger that they had told me on the phone that the decline was based on the Experian and Equifax reports.

I really don't understand why they can't just send out a letter telling people why they were declined INSTEAD of sending out a letter advising that the applicant needs to WRITE to them to get that reason. That is just bizarre!

Providian won't change their procedures just because I'd like them to.

The ECOA, (written by banksters for banks) needs to be changed to require that the reason for the decline be disclosed to the applicant and that all advertisements clearly display the name of the financial institution who will be extending credit.

2) Providian is still trying to locate the CDVs (Consumer Dispute Verifications)

Apparently those boxes are in various locations across the country, and Gloria hopes they'll have the documents in a week.

I am most interested in the exact wording of my Experian disputes of the incorrect bankruptcy dates as received by Providian. After reading the Bennett Congressional testimony, I really wonder about the dispute procedures.

Experian never responded to my requests for procedures.

3) Gloria will send the Waiver. As per my call log, I first spoke with the Office of the President about serving Providian on 4/23. It's unbelievable that according to the USPS, the Waiver and Complaint were delivered to Bob Wester, then he was on vacation, then he claims he never received it, and now it's 5 months later.

Gloria, Providian called

Gloria left a VM for me, they received my mailing. On Monday I had sent the complaint, request for waiver, and all my exhibits and filings to date.

Have to call her Monday.

Gloria, Providian voice mails

Gloria left a long VM for me late Friday, she's been in lots of meetings.

I just left a message for her, really need to know if they'll sign the Waiver, going to arrange for serving the remaining defendants this week.

Left another VM for Gloria, Providian

Gloria hasn't returned my call from 9/2. Since 4/23 I've been working on Providian, since 7/9 I've been talking to Gloria. Their registered agent, Branch Manager Bob Wester apparently "lost" my complaint, he was on vacation, Gloria was "researching" my account ....

It's really interesting to see how these companies operate.

Left VM for Gloria, Providian

VM: I'm getting ready to have everybody served who hasn't returned the Waiver, and I also have a couple pounds of paper to send them, mostly exhibits, as there has been quite a bit of action - need address.

Providian Director = Deputy Attorney General Larry Thompson

Corporate Officers & Directors Liability Litigation Reporter - Andrews Publications

The "number-two man in the U.S. Justice Department"

According to the complaint, Thompson used his position in the Justice Department for his own private benefit, "refusing or failing to investigate and prosecute the manifold fraudulent and criminal misconduct."

What else is new? Are they ALL corrupt?

"While he was a director of Providian Financial Corporation, the number-two man in the U.S. Justice Department committed the same type of corporate wrongdoing that his Corporate Crime Task Force is trying to root out, a Providian investor charges in a suit filed in federal court in San Francisco with the help of legal watchdog group Judicial Watch Inc. The suit claims current Deputy Attorney General Larry Thompson helped to hide severe problems while with the company. Lake v. Providian Financial Corp. et al., No. 02-03933, complaint filed (N.D. Cal., 8/13/2002)

Even though he was the chairman of Providian's audit committee, Thompson joined in the alleged scheme to artificially inflate the company's stock price and give insiders time to cash in their stock options before the fiscal roof caved in, the suit says. After Thompson left for Washington last year, Providian's stock price fell when investors heard that the company changed accounting policies for the sole purpose of masking a rapidly increasing number of bad loans, shareholder Robert Lake charges."

Isn't it amazing that every time SHAREHOLDERS lose a few bucks, law suits are filed and all hell breaks lose.

Is anyone surprised about these activities by the "number-two man in the U.S. Justice Department?"

"To delay the day of reckoning with investors, the officers changed their procedure for recognizing losses that resulted from customer bankruptcies, Lake's suit complains. The sole reason for that accounting change was to hide the increasing rate of customer defaults, the suit alleges."

The CRAs' failure to implement reasonable procedures to ensure the accuracy of consumer reports is not just saving costs.

All CRAs try to have as much incorrect derogatory data on the consumer reports as possible. When scores are lower, the CRA customers get to charge more interest.

If one CRA had consistently BETTER quality reports and the subsequent higher scores, the creditors would no longer use their reports.

Add to that the CRAs' DELETIONS of positive tradelines after 10 years and often much sooner, SERIOUSLY lowering credit scores.

The so called "regulators" are regulating the flow of cash into their bank accounts, corrupt, and with no interest in consumer protection whatsoever. And apparently the attorneys think that only SHAREHOLDERS are worth litigating for.

Called Gloria, Providian

She also left a message today, why is everybody calling on Friday?

Finally got to talk to her, she's been doing some research, but not done yet.

They'll sign the Waiver, but haven't received anything yet from Bob Wester, and they hope to settle - we'll see.

We also discussed my client and his power of attorney, it's just unbelievable what people have to go through.

While on that subject, I requested that she discuss with their attorneys what they want me to publish for consumer contacts and dispute resolution.

It seems like some companies prefer to have me assist my clients with retaining an attorney rather than discussing a dispute and possible resolution with me or consumers directly. If that's what they want, I can certainly publish that and take the appropriate actions.

Cheri Gorman, Office of the President, Providian

I called on a client matter today. Ms. Gorman had finally brought my complaint to the attention of the Providian legal department and she knows that I have a serious problem with their policy of refusing consumer disputes unless the consumer provides credit reports no older than 30 days. Promptly she requested my client's credit reports.

She stated that the CRAs "frequently" report DIFFERENT data than the data furnished to the bureaus by Providian.

I'd sure like to find out how that's possible. Here's my e-mail to Ms. Gorman:

Dear Ms. Gorman:

I am following up on our telephone conversation this afternoon, as you know I am litigating against Providian and the CRAs and publishing credit related events and my suit.

1) You have received my VM regarding my client's account a week ago, but you "hadn't had a chance" to get back to me.

2) You stated that you would not accept a faxed power of attorney from my client in Japan due to security concerns, and you demanded that he utilize the US postal service.

When I told you that recently a Waiver of Service was delivered to Arizona Child Support Services instead of my address (Exhibit A in my Objection to the Household Motion to Dismiss), it appeared that you couldn't care less.

I suggest you re-evaluate your "security" concerns and stop jeopardizing consumers' security with your demands for mailings of important documents via postal service.

3) When I asked why you report a BALANCE for an account that is also reported as "Transferred/Sold," you insisted that you did NOT sell the account. You requested my client's credit reports.

I asked whether you don't know what you report, and you stated that you DO know what you report. When I questioned the purpose of me supplying you with the credit reports, you stated that the credit bureaus report DIFFERENT data than what you furnish to them.

I asked: "How could it be that the credit bureaus report something different than what you report?"

You replied: "It happens frequently."

Providian refuses to investigate consumer disputes unless the consumer provides their credit reports no older than 30 days, and that's a major violation of the FCRA. The Providian letter is posted at http://forum.creditcourt.com/discus/messages/207/211.html

I did not know that CRAs report anything other than the data supplied by the data furnishers. The CRAs claim that they ONLY report data as supplied by the furnishers. Is there ANYTHING you are willing to volunteer to substantiate your claim?

You refused to provide me with the Providian reporting.

I just added you to my witness list, as I intend to show to the Court, as well as to attorneys, consumers and the world the deficiencies of the American credit reporting system.

Also, on July 16, 2003, the House Financial Services Subcommittee on Financial Institutions unanimously approved “Landmark FCRA Legislation.” I am getting ready to submit to the members of the Subcommittee several problems such as the Providian refusal to investigate consumer disputes for possible amendments to the legislation, hopefully including statutory damages for each violation.

Please do respond if you can assist in any way or if there are any misunderstandings.

Christine Baker

c: posted at www.creditsuit.org

Gloria, Providian called, did some research

Gloria left a VM, she's done some research, and is going to research some more, going on vacation tonight, and will call me next Wednesday or Thursday.

It sure is a nice surprise when someone actually calls me back.

Spoke with Gloria, Providian legal department

Gloria had left a VM for me on Monday, and I finally had a few minutes to get back to her.

She had the e-mail with my attached complaint, forwarded by Cheri Gorman, Executive Offices, but of course she hadn't read it. I found out that I had mailed the complaint to the correct address in Tilton, NH, but she should have received it by now and was concerned. Bob Wester is still on vacation, maybe the post-office managed to accomplish another misdelivery, good thing I'm in no rush.

Gloria wanted to know what my specific issues with Providian are, and I explained the credit reporting of the discharged account by Experian, and their failure to provide me with the adverse action letter after the PayPal decline. I also mentioned the Providian refusal to process consumer disputes submitted by consumers.

And of course she asked what I am looking for in a settlement. As always, I tried to explain that money isn't the only issue, I'm looking to find out HOW credit reporting works, WHY all these incorrect bankruptcy notations are reported by Experian, and that I want Providian to change their business practices. I want Providian to process consumer submitted disputes WITHOUT requiring credit reports and I want them to send out adverse action letters as required by law.

And while I may not have the legal skills and $$$ to get that accomplished, I sure hope that legislators, attorneys and consumers will see what's going on and take the appropriate actions: change laws and file suits!

I gave Gloria my SSN and she promised to research my account and PayPal application. Hopefully she'll get back to me before she goes on vacation by the end of next week.